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※ 本文轉寄自 ptt.cc 更新時間: 2021-03-21 14:35:18
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作者 nangle (帥胖汪汪)
標題 [新聞] Elon Musk and Amazon Are Battling to P
時間 Sun Mar 21 07:07:05 2021


原文標題:

Elon Musk and Amazon Are Battling to Put Satellite Internet in Your Backyard.
伊隆· 馬斯克(Elon Musk)和亞馬遜(Amazon)爭相將衛星互聯網放入您的後院

原文連結:

https://reurl.cc/9ZWbAV
Elon Musk and Amazon Are Battling to Put Satellite Internet in Your Backyard - WSJ
[圖]
For rural homesteaders and suburbanites alike, no matter where they live on the globe, fast, reliable internet connectivity is on its way—from outer s ...

 

發布時間:

March 20, 2021 12:00 am ET
By Christopher Mims

原文內容:

For rural homesteaders and suburbanites alike, no matter where they live on
the globe, fast, reliable internet connectivity is on its way—from outer
space.


Cybersecurity specialist Luke McOmie lives entirely off-grid on the side of a
mountain in Colorado, where there’s no cell service or landline broadband
internet. Yet he recently gave a talk at a convention hosted in Japan on the
lethality of drones. He was live via satellite—his own personal satellite
internet connection, that is.

With a constellation of hundreds of satellites, and speeds comparable to U.S.
broadband, the Starlink service lets Mr. McOmie do his job despite being in
the middle of nowhere. He and his wife Melanie McOmie are living the sort of
lifestyle that pandemic-weary, deskbound urbanites might envy: raising
chickens, watching out for mountain lions, and taking in an expanse of
unsullied forest.

The McOmies are part of a beta testing program for a new kind of internet
service from Elon Musk’s rocket company SpaceX. Their experience has been
phenomenal so far, they say. They regularly get download speeds of 120
megabits per second, and because the antenna gives off a fair amount of heat,
they’ve been able to stay connected through most winter weather. They did
have to clear it after a recent blizzard, however.

It’s not clear what kind of speeds Starlink will offer to millions of
people, versus the more than 10,000 now testing in the U.S., Canada and the
U.K. Depending on how many people SpaceX signs up, future users could have
internet speeds that are only a fraction of what’s available during this
demo period. And even if Starlink and its soon-to-deploy competitors work as
advertised, there are many other potential challenges to their viability, let
alone profitability. They include the headaches of shared wireless spectrum,
and the threat of space debris.

But with at least three other serious, deep-pocketed contenders in the
internet-from-space race—including Amazon, OneWeb and longtime operator
Telesat—getting fast, reliable internet service from any place on earth with
a clear view of the sky could soon seem no more miraculous than a cell
signal. It also might not be much more expensive: Current pricing for
Starlink is $499 upfront and $99 a month for service.

Internet from space has obvious implications for potentially closing the
rural/urban digital divide, not only for Americans but also the rest of the
world. It could also encourage new ways of working and living, untethered
from cable and fiber-optic internet connections. And giving huge swaths of
homes a wider choice of internet service providers, irrespective of their
geography, could mean a shift in users, revenue and value away from
traditional telecom companies.

Nick Buraglio lives just outside Champaign, Ill. He has plenty of wired and
wireless broadband options. Yet, as a professional network engineer, he’s
testing Starlink out of curiosity.

Unlike established internet providers that handle installation, Starlink
requires you to do it yourself. But that was “mind-numbingly easy,” Mr.
Buraglio says. He connected the pizza-size Starlink antenna to the provided
router, and power, and then followed along in the Starlink smartphone app.
Since it needs an unobstructed view of the sky, free of overhanging trees, he
decided to mount it permanently on his roof. That, along with running the
antenna’s data-and-power cable into his home, was the hardest part. Still,
he says, it was no more complicated than installing a rooftop television
antenna back in the day.

Anyone wishing to reproduce this experience will have to get in line,
however: The waiting list for Starlink is now up to a year.

The experiences of Starlink beta users are enabled by the 1,000 or so
satellites that its parent company has launched. While that makes SpaceX
owner of about a third of all active satellites orbiting Earth, it’s only
the beginning: Starlink has received approval from the FCC to launch nearly
12,000 satellites.

So many satellites are required because each one passes overhead very
quickly, and is relatively close to Earth’s surface, up to about 1,200
miles, in what’s known as “low earth orbit.” The advantage of this orbit
is that signals can travel swiftly from earth to a satellite and back, which
is why Starlink is able to offer service with low “latency”—the time it
takes a signal to make a round trip. The McOmies say they are able to use
their Starlink service to blast opponents simultaneously on the demanding,
fast-twitch online first-person shooter “Apex Legends.”

Traditional telecom and earth-observing satellites generally hover much
farther from Earth, in what’s known as geosynchronous orbit, about 22,000
miles above the equator. This allows them to reach much more of the planet at
once, but the round-trip signal time is so long that applications like
internet telephony, video chatting and most types of gaming are virtually
impossible.

U.K.-based OneWeb, which was founded in 2012 and went bankrupt in 2020, has
recently been relaunched by a consortium including the British government and
Bharti Global. The company has already launched 110 satellites out of a
planned 648. The idea is for 588 to be active at any one time, says Chris
McLaughlin, OneWeb’s chief of government affairs. He projects that by the
end of this year, the company’s network will offer internet coverage to
northern latitudes, with full global coverage next year.

Another competitor is Canadian satellite company Telesat. Unlike the others,
it has more than 50 years of experience operating satellites, says Chief
Executive Dan Goldberg. Telesat doesn’t want to give everyone an antenna,
like Starlink and OneWeb do. Instead, it would provide connections to ground
stations owned by telecom companies, which would then connect to end users in
conventional ways such as cellular or long-range Wi-Fi networks. Users wouldn
’t have to worry about how they got the internet connection they were
enjoying, and could use their phones and other mobile devices instead of
specialized equipment.

Telesat will start launching its new constellation of 298 low-earth-orbit
broadband satellites in 2023, and plans to have full coverage of the globe by
2024, adds Mr. Goldberg. One reason its constellation is smaller than those
of its competitors is that each of its satellites is bigger and orbits at a
higher (but still low-earth) altitude, he says. Should the company’s plans
bear fruit, Telesat’s satellites will also have high-speed, laser-based
interconnections between each other, so they can pass internet traffic
between themselves, in space, before sending it back to earth closer to its
intended destination. (Starlink is also testing laser-based communication
between its satellites.)

Amazon’s Project Kuiper, about which the company has remained relatively
tight-lipped, has announced that it is committing $10 billion to launch a
network which, by all appearances, is very much like Starlink’s. While the
company has not announced its satellite design or launch timetable, it will
have to launch half of its intended network, or approximately 1,600
satellites, by July 2026 to comply with its FCC license.

In the future, there are yet more potential entrants into the space-internet
race: China announced it intends to launch its own network of 10,000
low-earth-orbit satellites, and the EU is contemplating building one as well.
Hardly a month goes by in which yet another startup doesn’t announce an
attempt at some slice of the market, including more than a dozen startups
aiming to use small satellites to connect the “Internet of Things.”

It’s not clear that all of these companies will successfully launch their
networks, or survive once they do, says Chris Quilty, a partner at Quilty
Analytics, which tracks the space industry from a financial perspective. His
own analysis of the viability of Starlink, for example, finds that its
moneymaking prospects depend heavily on slashing the cost of the
sophisticated and expensive ground-based antennas that it sends to customers.
The $499 upfront fee to join Starlink doesn’t cover the $2,000 to $2,500
that Mr. Quilty and other analysts estimate is the actual cost for each
antenna.

That said, the FCC in December announced its intention to give Starlink $885
million to connect homes in the U.S., if the company meets certain
requirements, as part of the Rural Digital Opportunity Fund.

Countless other headaches await Starlink and its competitors. Among them are
the rights to the wireless spectrum satellites use to beam data to earth.
OneWeb, SpaceX and another satellite communications company argue they should
be granted senior rights to a certain wireless band in the U.S. This might
mean satellites from one of these companies—or their future competitors—
would have to modify their transmissions when they detect possible
interference, says Mr. Quilty.

Then there is the dreaded Kessler syndrome, depicted in the movie “Gravity,”
 where orbiting space debris leads to a runaway space pileup. At present,
there are recommendations but few binding rules about how Earth’s low earth
orbit is used.

Until the space junk-pocalypse comes, Brian Jemes, network manager at the
University of Idaho, plans to continue enjoying his Starlink system. At his
home near Moscow, Idaho, satellite service has been 20 times faster than it
was with his local ISP, which connected over long-range Wi-Fi.

Mr. Jemes, who spent 18 years at Hewlett-Packard and has been building
networks for 32 years, is glad to be part of the Starlink beta. Still, he
knows that whether he continues to enjoy such fast internet speeds will
depend on how many satellites Starlink puts into the sky, and how popular the
service becomes.

“It’s how cable internet was at first,” he says, “until your whole
neighborhood was on it.”

—For more WSJ Technology analysis, reviews, advice and headlines, sign up
for our weekly newsletter.

Write to Christopher Mims at christopher.mims@wsj.com

Copyright c 2020 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
87990cbe856818d5eddac44c7b1cdeb8
Appeared in the March 20, 2021, print edition as 'The New Space Race That Is
Landing in a Backyard Near You.'


機翻如下:

對於農村宅基地和郊區居民而言,無論他們生活在地球上的何處,都在快速,可靠地連接
互聯網—從外太空。

網絡安全專家盧克‧麥克米(Luke McOmie)完全脫離電網居住在科羅拉多州的一座山上
,那裡沒有手機服務或固定電話寬頻互聯網。然而,他最近在日本舉行的一項關於無人機
殺傷力的公約上發表了演講。他是通過衛星直播的,也就是說,他擁有自己的個人衛星互
聯網連接。


Starlink服務擁有數百顆衛星,其速度可與美國寬頻媲美,儘管身處茫茫荒地,還是讓
McOmie先生做好了工作。他和妻子梅蘭妮‧麥考米(Melanie McOmie)過著那種飽受流行
病困擾,坐滿桌子的都市人可能羨慕的生活方式:養雞,當心山獅,以及在廣闊的未受污
染的森林中生活。


McOmies是埃隆‧馬斯克(Elon Musk)火箭公司SpaceX提供的一種新型Internet服務的
Beta測試計劃的一部分。他們說,到目前為止,他們的經歷非常出色。它們的下載速度通
常為每秒120兆bit,並且由於天線會散發出大量的熱量,因此他們能夠在大多數冬季天氣
下保持連接狀態。然而,在最近的一場暴風雪過後,他們確實必須清除它。


尚不清楚Starlink將為數以百萬計的人提供什麼樣的速度,而目前在美國,加拿大和英國
進行的超過10,000種測試已經完成。根據SpaceX簽約的人數,未來的用戶可能只有極少數
的網速在此演示期間可用的功能。即使Starlink及其即將部署的競爭對手按照廣告宣傳工
作,其生存能力也面臨許多其他潛在挑戰,更不用說盈利了。其中包括共享無線頻譜的頭
痛,以及太空碎片的威脅。


但是,與至少三個其他認真,財大氣粗的競爭者—包括亞馬遜,OneWeb和長期運營商
Telesat —展開激烈競爭,從地球上任何地方獲得清晰天空的快速,可靠的互聯網服務可
能很快就會到來 似乎沒有比細胞信號更神奇的了。 它的價格可能也不會便宜得多:
Starlink的當前價格為499美元的預付款,以及每月99美元的服務費用。

太空互聯網對於潛在地縮小農村/城市數字鴻溝具有明顯的意義,這不僅對美國人而且對
世界其他地區也是如此。它還可以鼓勵新的工作和生活方式,而不受電纜和光纖互聯網連
接的束縛。不論其地理位置如何,給大片房屋提供更多選擇的互聯網服務提供商,可能意
味著用戶,收入和價值從傳統電信公司轉移過來。


尼克‧布拉格里奧(Nick Buraglio)住在伊利諾伊州尚佩恩(Champaign)外,他有很多
有線和無線寬頻選擇。但是,作為一名專業的網絡工程師,他出於好奇而對Starlink進行
了測試。


與已建立安裝程序的互聯網提供商不同,Starlink要求您自己完成。布拉格里奧說,但這
“非常輕鬆”。他將披薩大小的Starlink天線連接到提供的路由器和電源,然後繼續使用
Starlink智能手機應用程序。由於需要無遮擋的天空視野,沒有懸垂的樹木,因此他決定
將其永久固定在屋頂上。那是最困難的部分,再加上將天線的數據和電源線插入他的家中
。他說,儘管如此,這並不比在白天安裝屋頂電視天線更複雜。


任何希望重現這種體驗的人都必須排隊,但是:Starlink的等待名單現在已經長達一年了


母公司已經發射了1,000顆左右的衛星,從而使Starlink Beta用戶的體驗得到了支持。儘
管這使SpaceX擁有圍繞地球運行的所有活動衛星的三分之一,但這僅僅是個開始:
Starlink已獲得FCC的批准,可以發射近12,000顆衛星。

之所以需要如此多的衛星,是因為每顆衛星都非常快速地從頭頂上方經過,並且相對接近
地球表面,長達1200英里,即所謂的“低地球軌道”。該軌道的優勢在於,信號可以從地
球快速傳播到衛星,然後又返回,這就是為什麼Starlink能夠以低“等待時間”(即信號
往返所需的時間)提供服務的原因。 McOmies表示,他們能夠使用自己的Starlink服務在
要求苛刻的快速第一人稱在線射擊遊戲《 Apex Legends》中同時爆炸對手。


傳統的電信和地球觀測衛星通常在離地球更遠的地方懸停,在所謂的地球同步軌道上,距
赤道約22,000英里。這樣一來,他們就可以一次到達地球上更多的地方,但是往返信號時
間是如此之長,以至於互聯網電話,視頻聊天和大多數類型的遊戲等應用幾乎是不可能的


總部位於英國的OneWeb成立於2012年,於2020年破產,最近由包括英國政府和Bharti
Global在內的財團重新啟動。 OneWeb政府事務主管克里斯‧麥克勞克林(Chris
McLaughlin)說,該公司已經從計劃中的648顆衛星中發射了110顆衛星。該想法是使588
衛星在任何一次都可以活動。他預計,到今年年底,該公司的網絡將為北部緯度地區提供
Internet覆蓋,明年將全面覆蓋全球。


另一個競爭對手是加拿大衛星公司Telesat。首席執行官丹‧戈德堡(Dan Goldberg)說
,與其他衛星不同,它擁有50多年的衛星運行經驗。 Telesat不想像Starlink和OneWeb那
樣給所有人一個天線。相反,它將提供到電信公司所擁有地面站的連接,然後這些地面站
將以常規方式(例如蜂窩或遠程Wi-Fi網絡)連接到最終用戶。用戶不必擔心他們如何獲
得自己喜歡的互聯網連接,並且可以使用手機和其他移動設備來代替專用設備。


Goldberg先生補充說,Telesat將在2023年開始發射其新的298顆低地球軌道寬頻衛星,併
計劃在2024年前將其全面覆蓋全球。他說,它的星座比競爭對手小的原因之一是它的每顆
衛星都更大,並且在更高(但仍然是低地球)的高度上運行。如果該公司的計劃取得成果
,Telesat的衛星之間也將具有基於雷射的高速互連,因此它們可以在空間之間傳遞彼此
之間的互聯網流量,然後再將其發送回更接近其預定目的地的地球。 (Starlink還在測
試其衛星之間基於雷射的通信。)


亞馬遜一直對它保持相對沉默的項目庫伊珀(Project Kuiper)宣布,將投入100億美元
啟動一個網絡,從表面上看,它與Starlink的網絡非常相似。儘管該公司尚未宣布其衛星
設計或發射時間表,但為了遵守FCC許可證,它必須在2026年7月之前發射其預期網絡的一
半,即大約1600顆衛星。


將來,還有更多的潛在參與者進入太空互聯網競賽:中國宣布計劃發射自己的由10,000顆
低地球軌道衛星組成的網絡,歐盟也正在考慮建造一顆。幾乎沒有一個月的時間,又有一
家初創公司沒有宣布要在某些市場上進行嘗試,包括十幾家旨在使用小型衛星連接“物聯
網”的初創公司。


Quilty Analytics的合夥人克里斯奎爾蒂(Chris Quilty)表示,目前尚不清楚所有這些
公司能否成功啟動其網絡,或者一旦成功就可以生存。例如,他自己對Starlink可行性的
分析發現,Starlink的盈利前景在很大程度上取決於削減發送給客戶的複雜,昂貴的地面
天線的成本。加入Starlink的499美元前期費用不包括Quilty先生和其他分析師估計的每
根天線的實際成本2,000美元至2500美元。


也就是說,美國聯邦通信委員會(FCC)在12月宣布打算向Starlink提供8.85億美元,如
果該公司滿足某些要求,則它可以作為美國農村數字機會基金的一部分,用於在美國連接
房屋。


無數其他麻煩還在等待Starlink及其競爭對手。其中包括使用無線頻譜衛星將數據發射到
地球的權利。 OneWeb,SpaceX和另一家衛星通信公司爭辯說,應該授予他們對美國某個
無線頻段的優先權。這可能意味著這些公司之一(或其未來的競爭對手)的衛星必須在發
現可能的干擾時修改其傳輸,奎爾蒂先生說。


然後就是電影《重力》中描述的可怕的凱斯勒綜合症,在那兒繞行的太空碎片導致失控的
空間堆積。目前,有一些建議,但是關於如何使用地球近地軌道的約束性規則很少。

愛達荷大學網絡經理Brian Jemes計劃繼續使用他的Starlink系統,直到太空垃圾出現。
在愛達荷州莫斯科附近的家中,衛星服務的速度比其本地ISP(通過遠程Wi-Fi連接)的速
度快20倍。


Jemes先生在惠普工作了18年,已經建立了32年的網絡,他很高興成為Starlink Beta的一
員。不過,他知道他是否會繼續享受如此高速的互聯網速度,將取決於Starlink向天空發
射多少顆衛星,以及該服務的受歡迎程度。


他說:“一開始就是有線互聯網,直到整個社區都在上面。”

—有關更多《華爾街日報》技術分析,評論,建議和頭條新聞,請註冊我們的每週新聞。
寫信給christopher.mims@wsj.com的克里斯托弗‧米姆斯(Christopher Mims)

版權所有c 2020道瓊斯公司。保留所有權利。




心得/評論:

馬斯克的忙碌程度真的超乎想像
這其實也是他可以一直享受到超乎常人的追捧的原因

嚴格來說,他不是唯一做過這些夢的人
但是他可能是唯一個去實現並且最接近實現的人

瘋狂的世紀初、
沉悶又暗流洶湧的世紀中、
糜爛奢華又幻滅的世紀末。

生在這個時間點真是太有趣了

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ZhouGongJin : 裝在車上能實現移動基地台嗎?1F 03/21 07:35
nangle      : 特斯拉其實一直有超充站普及的需求2F 03/21 07:40
nangle      : 要實現這個部分,個人認為最有可能是超充站+在地網
nangle      : Elon Musk的事業群,基建需求一直很強
nangle      : 哪天Elon Musk開了自己的建設公司我也不會意外
nangle      : 話說他的boring company就很有基建事業的意味了
C13H16ClNO  : 我們快把社會住宅包給特斯啦吧  一年10萬戶穩的7F 03/21 07:50
gtomina8810 : 豪 亞馬遜噴爆8F 03/21 08:18
popmentos   : 火星上需要的事業 他早晚都會有9F 03/21 08:23
JFNfrog     : 什麼時候開始開採精煉瓦斯10F 03/21 08:36
summerleaves: 部屬衛星速度不夠快的話 頻寬會被搶光吧 比誰射得快11F 03/21 08:36
sharmans    : 標題聽起來很色12F 03/21 08:48
haoha       : 股價多噴一點先說好嗎13F 03/21 08:51
TruMadDeeply: 先付499鎂的設定費,然後一個月99鎂的WIFI還能當分14F 03/21 09:14
TruMadDeeply: 享器,網速還比很多爛4G快很多,結果新聞還說這樣
TruMadDeeply: 不便宜......這記者是以為全世界網路都是4G吃到飽是
TruMadDeeply: 不是....
zaqimon     : 滿天星18F 03/21 09:14
Severine    : 再快還不是拿來挖礦19F 03/21 09:22
chen891276  : 台灣電信價格 一堆鄉民都能嫌了20F 03/21 09:47
chen891276  : 這貴這麼多又沒比較好
chen891276  : 我們來看看之後會不會變真香
sturmpionier: 台灣市場看法重要嗎 呵呵23F 03/21 09:52
emptie      : 這就在美國有競爭力24F 03/21 09:55
emptie      : 啊東亞這些網路本來就很先進的地方就算了
emptie      : 本來就不是
emptie      : 目標客戶
st856533    : 鯊魚海纜bye28F 03/21 10:00
superich    : 大家都放自己的低軌道衛星不會太擠嗎29F 03/21 10:04
towierc     : 先顧好特斯拉股價拜託30F 03/21 10:08
koster      : 目前還是只能固定式接收器 所以更像固網而非4G31F 03/21 10:12
koster      : 不過已經跟FCC申請裝在移動載具上了
g0t24568    : 中國主要客群 以後不用翻牆了33F 03/21 10:22
loat        : musk好像說過tesla車輛載體數量太多 starlink好像34F 03/21 10:59
loat        : 負擔不來
smallcar801 : ipo無腦買,小孩長大剛好當成留學教育基金36F 03/21 11:42
lynos       : 炒股+吸金,史上最大騙局37F 03/21 11:48
Ren8648     : 樓上空手仔38F 03/21 11:49
lynos       : 特斯拉股價要崩了39F 03/21 11:49
qwe22992168 : 支那人是在講股陸嗎?? 炒股+吸金??40F 03/21 12:53
lynos       : 想看畢業文41F 03/21 13:00
lynos       : 應該很精彩
Ren8648     : 空手仔 笑死43F 03/21 13:02
lynos       : 有死多頭當炮灰,也是樂趣44F 03/21 13:05
lynos       : 趕快買,想看崩潰
Ren8648     : 好了啦 乖乖買定存就好 乖46F 03/21 13:08
iamten      : 百年難得一見的炒股天才 快點出書我要買~~47F 03/21 13:14
LimYoHwan   : 美股大公司長期看都是漲的 追高殺低短線仔根本48F 03/21 13:29
LimYoHwan   : 不懂長期投資是怎麼一回事
LimYoHwan   : 短線仔資金少 一回調就嚇到狗吃屎 股票漲又追進去
LimYoHwan   : 只能在推文裡咒罵其他人跟他們一樣 可以理解
LimYoHwan   : 每一個都吹的跟股神一樣 賣最高買最低 其實都是
LimYoHwan   : 低能兒而已
lynos       : 有賺到大錢再說吧54F 03/21 13:50
lynos       : 沒賺到真的都是屁
Ren8648     : 賺到錢還要跟你報告是不是 笑死56F 03/21 13:53
lynos       : 當然不用,不過想看韭菜崩潰57F 03/21 14:05
ssss127     : 就一堆人賺到大錢啊 懷疑喔 一年從300-3000居然有人58F 03/21 14:05
ssss127     : 懷疑沒人賺到大錢 黑人問號
ssss127     : 你比較像韭菜 老實說
lynos       : 我本來就是韭菜61F 03/21 14:07
lynos       : 也希望你們一起
lynos       : 一年300,有甚麼好提
lynos       : 你是沒賺過大錢哦
ssss127     : 股價從300-3000一年10倍 唉...65F 03/21 14:16
LimYoHwan   : 林北8年前剛玩台股就跟PTT酸民跟標的殺進殺出66F 03/21 14:23
lynos       : 幾股67F 03/21 14:23
LimYoHwan   : 短線仔 後來發現你買一隻股票都不動 最後勝率最高68F 03/21 14:24
LimYoHwan   : 嘲笑的人 你自己問問你10年前 買一隻放到現在 收益
LimYoHwan   : 多少 你就知道了
LimYoHwan   : 如果你還年輕 現在還來得及
LimYoHwan   : 笑別人要跟你一樣 你怎麼不想想 那些拿得住的人
LimYoHwan   : 為什麼股價崩60%還拿得住
kyova       : 板上tsla有翻10倍的,而且上百萬鎂的印象中只有一人74F 03/21 14:27
LimYoHwan   : 拿的住 那後面的報酬多離譜 都是你應得的75F 03/21 14:28
kyova       : 有PO對帳單...沒5倍或1M以上的,我是不懂有啥好得意76F 03/21 14:28
kyova       : 的啦...更何況一堆都是跟風套牢仔...
kyova       : 不過tsla長期繼續翻幾倍的機率是高的,看有幾人真的
kyova       : 能抱好幾年的。像去年這種漲勢應該很難了。
kyova       : 套牢仔應該抱一年沒有翻個幾倍大概就放棄了...
LimYoHwan   : 短線能買低賣高  長投遇下跌能抱住 都不簡單81F 03/21 14:32
kyova       : 有本事就去找下一支10倍股,一直緬懷別人的豐功偉業82F 03/21 14:34
kyova       : 對自己也沒幫助...我還說得出比特幣翻1萬倍咧...

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